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[效果器知识] 《组效果器板指导》---来自bjfe官方论坛的全文翻译

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发表于 2017-12-4 14:19:22 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
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本帖最后由 潇潇童鞋 于 2017-12-5 10:01 编辑

全文载于bjfe官方论坛,由bj和donner发表,因为觉得比较有想法,所以花了点时间来翻译,因为有些地方没法翻译精确,所以也连英文一起发布,欢迎各位老师指正,互相加深理解。7楼有真正的高手朋友补充,翻译地更准确!

《组效果器板指导》原文和效果器组板子建议
by Donner »Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:22 am
来自BJFE官方论坛Donner大神(就是bearfoot的老boss
( A Guide to understanding how amplifierseffect tone and how you can use pedals to recreate some of these effects)
(一份帮助理解音箱如何修饰tone和如何使用效果器塑造这些效果的指导)
(Add your Stacking Suggestions in posts on this thread)
(欢迎在留言里添加您的对效果器的建议)

The Pedalstackers Guide to the Universe
《组效果器板指导》献给老铁们
by Donner Rusk and Bjorn Juhl
DonnerBJ
(last updated - 12/31/03)
最新更新于2003.12.31

The concept of using more than one pedal at a time is nothing new.
使用不止一颗效果器已经非常常见了
But we can take an in depth look at how they can interact.
然而现在让我们来深入思考一下他们如何互相作用
One way to think of pedals is as building blocks that recreate something thatan amplifier does, but at a controllable level that we can manipulateeasier.
一种看待效果器的视角是把效果器作为一种在音量可控操作简便的前提下模拟音箱的某种特定效果的途径
Do you remember the last time you plugged into a really good
amp and got to turn it up loud ? What a feeling of POWER! The guitar seems tobe playing itself. The compression and sustain and treble 'rounding' and thedynamics turn the guitar and amp into a single responsive tone machine.
不知你们是否还记得上次把吉他(直接)插进一颗好音箱并把音量调大的感觉。那种感觉是多么直接和充满力量!似乎吉他自己就能演奏音乐。那种恰到好处的压缩感、延音、圆润的高频和动态变化,把吉他和音箱变成一个敏感的tone machine
Think of an amp you enjoy playing... Why ? What sets it apart from
the others ? just the right amount of sustain? the EQ ? the
breakup ? The responsiveness?
Is it the way the whole circuit responds to your touch ?
This phenomenon is a wonderful thing! But it can be difficult to
reproduce at lower volumes from venue to venue, and as tubes and circuits wearthey respond differently, and that 'magic' can be gone just like that.
思考一下你喜欢弹奏的那颗音箱究竟好在哪里?是哪一点让她和别的音箱有区别?难道仅仅是恰到好处的压缩感?是EQ?是破音?还是触感?还是整个线路对弹拨的反应?
这种感觉是最美妙的事情!但是因为真空管和(效果器)电路反馈机理的不同,当我们尝试在低音量下重塑这种感觉时,发现这是非常困难的,而(一颗好管箱)的美妙魔力在这种尝试中并没有保留下来。
One alternative is to run a series of pedals to simulate the
various stages that an amp uses to create these wonderful tones, and run
them into a clean amp (producing no audible distortion of its own) or a
partially driven amp that will easily slip into overdrive when
pushed correctly.
一种折中的办法是用一组效果器进一颗清音音箱(本身不产生失真)或者一颗在推入音量适合时会部分过载的音箱来模拟“那颗”音箱在不同场合下的美妙音色。
An amp usually has four major sections thateffect the performance and tone of the output.
一颗音箱通常有四个部分来影响表现和音色:
Preamp > Poweramp > Transformers > Speaker
前级>后级>火牛>喇叭
PREAMP:
前级:
Preamp tubes usually reach saturation first and as they do a
few things happen; the tube runs out of headroom and the
treble is reduced and limiting and compression /sustain set in, also
there is a loss of bass as the tube runs out of power (it takes
more power to move bass frequencies), so you can end up with a
mid hump and treble/bass loss and added compression,sustain and limiting.
通常当前级管饱和以后会发生这么几件事:管子在headroom外工作,高低频有不同程度的衰减,开始产生压缩感。所以给我们的感觉是中频凸起,高低频减弱,和压缩感。
*headroom:音箱或者效果器不产生过载的最大输入信号强度,低于headroom不会产生过载,信号强度大于headroom会产生过载甚至失真效果。很多乐手喜欢用headroom来做cleanup操作,尤其在fuzz效果器上,即旋小吉他的音量旋钮,让音色在清音或者轻过载里工作,然后调高音量旋钮音量让音色产生更多失真,甚至higain,产生音色上的层次感。也有人把吉他音量调整在headroom的边界上,通过弹拨力度来影响过载度。
**原文中compressionsustainlimiting直译应为压缩、延音、限幅,专业的来说有区别,但是都在压缩效果的范畴内,所以在译的过程中直接翻成压缩,不作区别,作者的本意也不在强调这三种效果的区别,不影响理解BJ大神的用意。
POWER AMP SECTION:
后级:
A typical poweramp can be divided into three basic stages regardless of
design
1. The inputstage
2. The voltage amp
3. The outputstage or current amplifier.
And all three become one stage.
无论后级的设计是怎样的,它都能被分为三部分:
1.      输入级  2.功放  3.输出级或者电流放大器
然后这三部分变成一个整体。
*术语太专业了,不知道怎么翻,希望指正。拗口的地方多多包涵。
This is most often surrounded by a feedback network
后级通常会采用反馈电路联通
Using feedback networks in the powerampsection is one approach that reduces distortion in specific stages inside thepoweramp. The most common feedback used is a 'global feedback network' thatcomes from the speaker output and mixes with the input signal - this surpressesdistortion created in the poweramp.
在后级使用反馈电路是为了减少后级或者后集中某特定级的失真。最常用的做法被称作“总体反馈”也就是通过在输出信号中混入输入信号,来抑制后级中产生的失真。
*著名的人头马过载就是把过载信号和干琴信号混合以后输出的。
While both do essentially the same thing - the 'global' approach also reducesdistortion in the speaker array giving firmer bass.
同样的,通过“总体反馈”能减弱音箱阵列失真中产生的过多低频。
This is so because the poweramp output becomes 'stale' or less robust.
这就是酱紫的,因为后级的输出本就会有点浑浊无力。
It's sort of like a kids jump rope - one end is the poweramp while the other isthe speaker. If poweramp end is not swinging the rope the motion of the ropewill be less. The action of both ends needs to be matched and coordinated toget optimum performance.
(Not a perfect analogy - but a useful picture.)
这有点像小盆友跳绳,一端是后级另一端是喇叭。如果后级不在甩绳子,那么绳子的动静就小些。一个满意的效果需要后级和喇叭的匹配。
(虽然不是一个完美的比喻,不过对于勾勒此间关系很有用)
This means that the speakers effect has less effect on the powerampoutput.
也就是说,喇叭对后级输出的影响会小些。
The relationship between speaker and amplifier is called 'Damping' and isexpressed as a factor, hence 'Damping factor'.
这种喇叭和箱头之间的关系被称为“阻尼感”,也被称作“阻尼效应”
The less effect being lost through interaction the higher the efficiency andthe connection is 'stale' - or less movement is allowed and the amplifier will'dampen' the backlash effect the speaker coil will have. It will resist changesin voltage by producing an equal voltage so as to maintain status quo.
互相作用时效果损失越小效率则越高。但是这种连接本身就是会有变味的,或者说,箱头会对喇叭线圈的反冲造成阻尼效应,会减少喇叭应有的动作。因为喇叭在电压改变时为了维持现状会产生一个相同的电压。
Amplifiers without global feedback usually(and always with tubeamplifiers) are affected by the speaker by a largermeasure than those with global feed back.
喇叭对没有总体反馈回路的音箱比有总体反馈回路的音箱影响更大
Example: Fender amps have global feedback (and more than Marshalls.)
They will be less picky about what speaker is connected.
The VOX AC's do not have global feedback and the speaker choice will be muchmore critical.
This effect is the 'swampy' feel in some amps.
例如:fender的箱子因为有总体反馈回路,所以和marshall相比,比较不挑喇叭。而voxac系列没有总体反馈回路,在喇叭的选择上比大F和大M要苛刻得多。所以在一些箱子上,会有一种“软”的感觉。
Some amps have a damping control and it mostly effect the loosness of the bassresponse.
一些箱子会有阻尼控制,这通常是在控制低频的损耗。
The purpose of this control is to enable settings from VOX ACxx to Fender moreor less - but usually it's not even close to either as the relationship betweenthe design topologies is many times more complex.
这种阻尼控制的目的是为了更兼容vox ac系列和fender的箱子,或多或少,但是效果通常并会理想,因为这两者的设计工艺差别实在太大。
In bass amplifiers the damping is usually high- it has to be for the bass tosound intelligable. This is often viewed as less important in guitaramps.
在贝斯音箱上,这种阻尼感会更大,因为贝斯需要被听得很清晰,所以和贝斯相比,阻尼效应在吉他上就显得比较不重要
Feedback reduces the distortion generated by the three stages.
反馈回路减少后级产生的失真。
With tubes an amplifier WITHOUT feedback can be made and there are quite a fewpopular amps using this design. A non-feedback amp circuit has narrow bandwidthand the distortion levels can be high, but can sound relatively clean.Such an amplifier will compress and soften overall tone quite early on thevolume dial and show no drastic increase of distortion but respond dynamicallyyet compressed.
用电子管但是没有反馈电路的这种设计实际上被一些很流行的音箱厂商采用。一个没有反馈回路的音箱会有较窄的频响宽度,更大的失真度,但是听起来会相对干净一些。这样的音箱会在音量刻度较小的时候就对音色进行压缩和柔化,不会产生剧烈的失真度变化,反应即动态感又压缩感
This means this amplifier will distort just a little harder with asudden increase in input level, but below saturation level where it will'sing'. As opposed to amplifiers that will play relatively cleaner untilthey hardclip - giving 'bursts' of distortion
意思是,相对于那些在headroom内音色干净,出headroom失真度骤增的音箱相比,当这种音箱在饱和音量以下工作时,在输入音量突然增加时的造成失真会更困难一些
*这里好像有点问题,感觉没翻译对,求大神指正。
TRANSFORMERS:
火牛(变压器)
The output transformer does many things, but basicly it's an interface.
输出牛其实做很多事情,但是基本上来说,它是一个接口
Its job is to 'transform' the product of the high voltage, low current,high impedance tube circuit into a low voltage, high current, low impedanceproduct the speaker can turn to sound.
它的作用是把真空管电路的高电压低电流高阻抗变成喇叭能发声的低电压高电流低阻抗
Some transformers do this better than others and this is where losses canoccur, especially in smaller trannies - the smaller the transformer the moreloss (bass,treble,compression etc..)
一些牛能做的比其他牛做的好,也就是说更少的信号损失,尤其是在一些小型半导体收音机里。通常来说牛越小损失越大。
Most often the transformer colours the EQ.
通常来说,牛会改变EQ
The internal FEEDBACK network of an amplifiers' power amp tries to correctthese losses.
音箱后级的反馈回路会尝试改善这些损失
The presence control in an amplifier REDUCES the amount of feedback in theTREBLE frequencies.
音箱上的presence旋钮减少高频反馈。
Upper frequencies are now limited bythe output transformer. The Treble ceiling is now set by the limits of thetransformers.
这时,高频由输出牛来限制,高频的极限由输出牛来确定。
During LIGHT overload the transformer will COMPRESS since its unable toreproduce transients rapidly. This softens sharp edges but as overload islessened,the transformer contiues to compress a while - it's an inductor(acoil) and doesn't respond to rapid changes but tends to perserve thestatus quo. It may also distort in other ways adding overtones.
在轻过载时,牛没法立即转换信号,就会对信号产生压缩,这会柔化音色边角,但是当过载减小时,牛仍会压缩一会,因为牛是一个感应线圈,不会对迅速改变产生反应,因为它会倾向于保持现状。这可能也会在别的途径上产生失真增加泛音。
To summarize; the output transformer compresses and diminishes frequencyrange and adds some distortion during overload, and is a line driver tothe speaker.
综上,输出牛会压缩信号、减小频宽,在过载时增加一些失真,并且是喇叭的驱动。
It is almost pointless to look at the effects of the transformerwithout looking at the the primary source ( what comes INTO thetransformer- the Power amp section) and the secondary load (the Speaker). Bothwill effect the performance of the transformer.
不考虑信号源(牛的信号由后级输入)和负载(喇叭)单独考虑牛的影响是无意义的。后级和喇叭都会影响牛的表现,其中后级相较喇叭影响更大。
There are distinct differences between Poweramp behaviour in a solid state ampand tubes near overload. At low levels the differences can be quitesmall.
固态后级和电子管后级在接近过载时候的表现有巨大区别,但是在低负荷下表现会小很多。
Picture this: you have a distorted sound and you increase output level of poweramp, and at a 'magic' point the sound is softened. Some of the high treblediminishes and the sound becomes more compact - this is how a transformer actson the overall sound. (You don't hear this in solid state amps)
关注一个现象:你获得了一个失真音色,然后去增大后级输出,在某个神奇的点,音色会变得柔化,一部分高频被减弱,声音变得更紧,这就是输出牛对整个音色的改变,然而这一切都不会在固态后级上发生。
SPEAKERS:
喇叭:
A Speaker most severly changes frequency response, but also distorts and compressesthe signal.
(By definition any change from the original signal is 'distortion' -Frequency Distortion is EQ change - Amplitude Distortion is compression,etc..)
喇叭影响最大的是频率响应,但是也会对信号造成压缩和失真。(任何对原始信号的改变都可以定义成失真,频率失真指的是EQ的变化,振幅失真指的是压缩等)
So the choice of speaker and how it matches to the amp can have a drasticeffect on the resulting tone.....
所以喇叭的选择以及喇叭和箱头的匹配度会对最终得到的音色起到巨大的影响

Pedals as Amplifier Imitators
把效果器当做模拟箱头
So, Can the 'hot amp' tonal phenomenon be broken into components that couldthen be imitated ? To some extent: YES !!!
那么,能否把一颗电子管箱头的全部表现拆分成各个元素然后(用效果器)进行模拟呢?从某种程度上来说:可以!
Compression / limiting / sustain /distortion /drive / fuzz / boost / EQchange are all effects of a tube amp at various stages ofoperation...
压缩、限幅、延音、失真、过载、法兹、推子、EQ变化是一个管箱头在各种场合设定下的全部效果
Most effect pedals simulate something whether its the compression of a tubenearing saturation (compressors).... or a trumpet mute (wah) or a Leslie cabinet(Phasers,flangers etc..)
大部分效果器是模拟些东西比如电子管在接近饱和状态时候的压缩感(压缩效果)或者小号的弱音器(哇音效果)或者Leslie cabinet(相位、镶边等)
* Leslie cabinet应该是某个特定典故,搜索了一下没搜到,望大神指点。
How do the different parts of the amp circuit react when pushed?
一颗箱头的不同部分在被推的时候会有什么反应?
*此处推(push)应该指被大力演奏、volume up、被boost推之类
An amplifier distorts, perhaps in a complex way, but not enough depth.There would be a few ways to aid an amplifiers' distortion.
一颗箱头失真,或许是一个很复杂的过程,但是并没有那么复杂。我们有一些方法来模拟一颗箱头失真
*此处BJ用了aid,不知道是什么意思,通过上下文大概猜测是模拟的意思。
The classic overdrive of a Tube Screamer is not so much made to emulate atube, but to add some distortion in the midrange, where the amplifier haslower sensitivity.
经典的TS过载并非完全为了模拟一颗电子管,而是增加了一些中频失真模拟一颗低敏感度的箱头
* ibanez TS系列的动态差问题……仁者见仁吧,但是不影响TS还是最经典的单块
The purpose of cutting bass in an overdrive is to make the sound clearer.Distortion in the bass gives rise to overtones higher up. This is the nature ofdistortion - it gives rise to artificial overtones higher up than the originalfrequency (Harmonics).
过载音色里削减低频是为了让声音听起来更干净。低频的失真会提高泛音(此处提高指音高提高)。这是失真的天性,会提高人工泛音的音高至高于原始频率的水平。
For the same reason - treble is cut. You rarely see this kind of 'TubeScreamer' filtering in real tube amp stages unless they are extreme high gainamplifiers. And this is usually the first stage. During these conditions thefiltering results in clarity and all losses will be made up for by thecompression of later stages. Perhaps the Tube Screamers' name implies that thispedal will make your tube amp scream.
同样的理由,高频削减。除非在极端的高增益音箱上,否则你几乎不会在真的电子管上看到像TS过载那样的滤波(此处应该指TS那样极端的EQ处理方式)。然而这只是第一部分。这样的滤波会让音色清晰,所有的信号损失由后面部分的压缩来补偿(可能指的是由音箱提供音色补偿)。也许TS的名字就是暗示了这个效果器会让你的管箱嘶吼。
A pedal that would react more like a screaming tube amplifier would be lesssuited to make a tube amplifier scream.
真正一个嘶吼的电子管箱音色的效果器反而不适合去让一个真正的电子管嘶吼。
*就是说TS可能更适合做推子去推一个电子管,但是真正模仿一个过载电子管音色的效果器你则需要避免箱子的电子管过载。BJ的意思可能是TS的名字不确切,叫tube pusher可能更能表达TS的本质。
One complex tone into another complex tone can be counter productive (Muddy-too many harmonics).
一个复杂的音色推进另一个复杂音色可能会产生反作用,因为太多的泛音让音色不干净。
*TS进管箱效果通常很好,然是增益类效果进TS或者TS进别的增益类效果通常得不到理想的效果,音色瞬间阳痿。
If you have worked with a Master volume amp, you know the difference betweenturning the preamp up and the Master down (saturated compressed sound) andturning down the preamp and cranking the Master (loud clean and dynamic) oreven putting everything on 11 !!
如果你有一台有master钮的音箱,你就会明白提高前级音量和提高master音量或者把两者都开足的区别。提高前级调低master会增加过载度,得到饱和的有压缩感的音色,调低前级提高master会得到干净动态的音色。
SO, taking all this into consideration - ( and your Guitar/Amp combination willobviously effect the end tone) - we can use a set or 'stack' of pedals toemulate the various products of the various amp stages and come up with avariety of useful tones.
所以,我们把这些都考虑起来(当然你的吉他和你用的音箱也显然会影响最终得到的音色),我们就可以配置一组效果器来模拟多种音箱在各自不同设定下的音色来得到一些非常有用的音色。
First we can consider what type of amp tones we want to recreate:
首先我们要考虑我们想去模拟哪台音箱的音色
A small Supro running at near max volume (lots of natural compression, trebleroll off, mid increase and complex distortion) Or a 100 watt Hiwatt withlots of clean head room, and dynamics simple distortion, or anything inbetween.
一台小的Supro开足音量下的音色(很多的自然的压缩感,高频削弱,中频增益和复杂的失真)或者一台100WHiwatt(足够多的清音headroom,失真比较简单,音色动态)或者之间的任何一种音色
The BJFE line of pedals has a variety of distortion types and sources to pickfrom.
我们能从BJFE的产品线里面选择丰富的音色种类
BBOD - Baby Blue Overdrive
dumble类型过载
DRD - Dyna Red Distortion
marshall类型失真
PPF - Pink Purple Fuzz
pink floyd/purple rain类型fuzz
CAF - Candy Apple Fuzz
gated fuzz
LGW - Little Green Wonder Overdrive
bj所理解的ts,更多动态,需要一颗清音箱头
HB - Honey Bee Overdrive
就是前面提到的开足音量的supro
EGD - Emerald Green Distortion Machine
vox类型失真,据说是用锗管驱动,不知真假
RRB - Red Rooster Booster BPB -Baby Pink Booster LRT - LittleRed Trebler LGE - LittleGreen Emphaser
各种类型推子
PGC - Pale Green Compressor
自然类型压缩,音色上存在感较差,手感上存在感巨大
Any one of these pedals by itself can be set to simulate an amp at differentstages of operation
这些效果器本身都能用来模拟不同设定下的一颗特定的音箱
The BBOD for example - you can set the drive higher and the level lower and geta master volume sort of tone or set the drive low and the level high for a morenon-master setting.....
baby blue overdrive举例。你可以把它设定成过载度较高但是总音量较低,在用tone钮总体修饰或者设定成过载度低音量高的non-master设定。

Lets Start with a simple stack:
再举例一些简单的效果器配置
BBOD > DRD > BPB
baby blue overdrive>dyna reddistortion>baby pink booster
Using the Master Volume amp analogy - we can set the BBOD to a setting similarto preamp over drive (saturated drive at low level) and the DRD at lowerdistortion but raised level so it has more punch and dynamics like a highheadroom power amp.... and then use the BPB at the end to simply raise thelevel of either or both drive pedals......giving us the BBOD by itself , theDRD by itself and the combination of the two and then a straight level boost ofany of these or the straight clean signal from the BPB.
用这三颗效果器来模拟一个有master钮的音箱。我们用bbod来类比前级过载(过载饱和但输出音量较低)在用drd设定再低失真度高音量来模拟一颗高headroom高动态的后级,再用bpb收尾来提升音量。无论是单用bbod还是drd还是两颗效果器一起用,bpb都能提供不产生失真的干净的音量提升。




补充内容 (2017-12-5 14:46):
感谢版主~我一定继续努力!
发表于 2017-12-4 14:59:05 来自吉他中國手机版 | 显示全部楼层
吉他中国抖音
高兴楼主,不辞辛苦的造福琴友,感谢分享。先顶起!
 楼主| 发表于 2017-12-4 14:59:13 | 显示全部楼层
GC视频号
本帖最后由 潇潇童鞋 于 2017-12-4 15:04 编辑

可能是BJ效果器的特性,BJ在运用和设计效果器的时候似乎是奔着做一颗落地箱头去的,甚至一颗效果器里面也可以单独划分“前级”“后级”,最后还提到了用bbod的前级进drd的后级来组合一颗“新”箱头。当然箱头党肯定会说箱头最高,我也承认确实如此,但是有条件收藏一堆极品箱头的玩家相信是小部分,用效果器来获得好音色可能确实是一种务实折中的办法。

 楼主| 发表于 2017-12-4 15:06:49 | 显示全部楼层
买琴买鼓,就找魔菇
119000 发表于 2017-12-4 14:59
高兴楼主,不辞辛苦的造福琴友,感谢分享。先顶起!

啊哈哈,谢谢朋友,我正好在学英语,就顺手翻一下,真的是兴趣是最好的老师,翻译起效果器文章来简直动力十足
发表于 2017-12-4 15:20:14 来自吉他中國手机版 | 显示全部楼层
慢慢消化,慢慢理解
发表于 2017-12-4 17:24:05 | 显示全部楼层
太棒了,谢谢楼主!先码住慢慢看
发表于 2017-12-4 22:28:57 | 显示全部楼层
solid state=晶体管
The voltage amp=电压放大器
Leslie cabinet=带有机械式旋转扬声器的Leslie箱体,最早的类似颤音的Vibe类型效果
global feedback=整体负反馈,功放电路里的所有反馈设计都是负反馈,正反馈会产生啸叫或是电路自激导致工作不正常甚至烧毁音箱
Distortion in the bass gives rise to overtones higher up. This is the nature ofdistortion - it gives rise to artificial overtones higher up than the originalfrequency (Harmonics). =低频的失真会提升泛音(此处提高指泛音的音量比例提高)。这是失真的天性,会提高泛音的音量至高于原始频率的水平。
harmonics=谐波
overtone=泛音

LZ辛苦了,以上是个人觉得不太贴切的地方,把自己的翻译标注上,共勉
发表于 2017-12-4 22:41:24 来自吉他中國手机版 | 显示全部楼层
顶 辛苦了
发表于 2017-12-4 23:52:26 | 显示全部楼层
感谢楼主的分享,顶起来!
发自吉他中国Pro iPhone客户端
 楼主| 发表于 2017-12-5 09:58:55 | 显示全部楼层
madseed 发表于 2017-12-4 22:28
solid state=晶体管
The voltage amp=电压放大器
Leslie cabinet=带有机械式旋转扬声器的Leslie箱体,最早 ...

真正的高手!!!学习了!!!
没搞明白的好像都明白了~谢谢兄弟~
发表于 2017-12-5 10:21:12 | 显示全部楼层
这样的好帖子不多了
发表于 2017-12-5 20:20:40 | 显示全部楼层
GC上好久没见这么好的帖子了
发表于 2017-12-7 16:40:55 | 显示全部楼层
歪瑞顾的,矮赖克BJFE拍豆吐~
秀这两句英语没别的意思,就是告诉你人外有人,不要骄傲,继续努力学习,以后多发点这种文,再次感谢楼主
 楼主| 发表于 2017-12-8 08:57:09 | 显示全部楼层
英式失真 发表于 2017-12-7 16:40
歪瑞顾的,矮赖克BJFE拍豆吐~
秀这两句英语没别的意思,就是告诉你人外有人,不要骄傲,继续努力学习,以后 ...

谢谢朋友,一定继续努力,下一篇断断续续翻到一半了,敬请期待
发表于 2017-12-9 19:42:43 | 显示全部楼层
挺好!的
发表于 2017-12-10 12:29:51 来自吉他中國手机版 | 显示全部楼层
潇潇童鞋 发表于 2017-12-8 08:57
谢谢朋友,一定继续努力,下一篇断断续续翻到一半了,敬请期待

学习了,感谢楼主!
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